Getting pulled over. Knife laws. Fact - or wrong assumptions. DONT SAY TACTICAL TO AN OFFICER!!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dana Mattos on July 21, 2010 at 17:35

I read a really good article about this & of course the first line of this is the police officer. Keep it real with them.
The other portion of the article dealt with being in front of a jury and the perception of the blade used, especially in a self defense situation. Size, color & shape, of the knife made a big difference in outcomes by jury. If by chance you had a Rambo II survival blade, 12 inches long with a sawback serrated edge you won't do very well. Tactical knives, with camo blades, kerambits, combat knives, double edge, etc. Now if you carried a 3.75 inch, pink handled, drop point folder you used to open boxes at work, a jury would be more likely to let you off the hook.

Permalink Reply by AlecsKnives on July 22, 2010 at 0:35

Hi,
I read the same article. I agree with you, and I thought it was very well written and helpful.

Permalink Reply by MICHAEL MAYFIELD on November 18, 2010 at 15:54

Hey Nate!!
I have just become a member, and realize my comments are late, however do you use neck knives, if so what's youe favorite?

Nate Andrews said:

I have to agree with alec. the law in new york( I don't live there but my best friend does and he made the mistake of carrying a kershaw leek) it is now illegal to carry anything over 2 in and if a pocket clip is showing its counted as concealed. neck knives are now very popular.

Permalink Reply by Garry T Moore on November 25, 2010 at 12:51

In California: If you are approached by an officer who says something like, "Can I talk with you for a minute?" or "Do you mind if I talk with you?" do not agree, "Sure officer." You have just given CONSENT for further questioning.

The reason he approached you is usually because something has raised a suspicion, but he has no probable cause to stop you. He wants to go fishing. Don't give consent unless you are certain you are compliant with all laws. Without probable cause he needs YOUR CONSENT to go on a fishing expedition.

I suggest you say, very apologetically, something like, "I'm sorry officer but I'm running very late." And keep walking. If, as is likely, he tells you to stop then you need to stop. But consent to nothing. If he wants to search you-or your car-tell him clearly but politely, that any search will be conducted without your consent. NEVER RESIST ANY SEARCH. Follow all his directives. Compliance is not consent. Early on in an exchange I would ask in a friendly way why he is stopping me. If he does not or cannot answer your question this may suggest to the judge that the officer was fishing without cause. Evidence found during an inproper search-no cause,no consent-is ordinarily not admitted by a judge.

As a civilian employee of a police agency I know many good, reasonable officers. But there are always a few stinkers. Don't help them make life difficult for you.

As I am not a lawyer I suggest that you check with a lawyer and make sure the above personal viewpoints comply with your local laws.

Permalink Reply by Garry T Moore on November 28, 2010 at 20:02

Given my age, if a LEO called me "son" I'd be so flattered I'd probably suggest he search me.

Permalink Reply by Halicon on April 14, 2011 at 9:29

Some good response here but no one has still touched the very essence of this subject; human psychology

 

The very first thing you do when you wake up and are about to head out is think, where will I go today and what will I do?

Please everyone, remember that you as a "good guy" is subjected to everything that the bad guys are too so there is no difference when either of you gets busted.

 

Is it really that smart of a move to carry a big claw for reverse carry when you head out for work, which is almost always used as a weapon. For the guys with a karambit getting pulled over, here in Sweden calling that a small garden pruner would probably put you with the alcoholics and reel you in as someone so intoxicated he couldn't think properly.

 

I've been at gun point in my own home by a K9 unit and he was 100% sure I had just commited a neigbourhood robbery since the dog lead him to my door.

At home I usually unwind and don't mind the laws that much, I stop caring about whether I can carry my boot dagger or my three-tier leveled loadout which allows me to deploy a blade in any type of body clinch.

 

At that moment when the officer has what he believes is reason enough to act you have to remember again the very basic which lead him to you; human psychology.

 

Look yourself in the mirror. Do you have beard? +1 for suspicion. Lazy eyelids? +1 for the officer. Shaggy or bad hairstyle? +1 yet again.

At the very essence you have to know how to make yourself not look like a suspect, second is to not act like a suspect. Third is to act like a -good- citizen that appreciates the work of the officers, regardless of how pissed off you may be.

Fourth I suppose is to conceal your weapons well enough that an officer won't notice it. I do not recommend it because you would be balancing on a fine thread, but again human psychology as well as proportional armament comes into play too.

I got through a body search once (but I will never risk it again) but it was only because I had my clinch knives (both of them tiny) and had them tucked at places officers rarely search.

 

I lucked out because I was "correctly" armed for the scenario. You don't need a 3", 6" or 10" blade to defend yourself. There are no more battlefields in which you meet at a standoff with two swords anymore. If the bad guy is after you, he is almost guaranteed to be armed and have acknowledged you as easy prey.

You won't see a thing until he knows he is in range to strike fast enough to prevent any risk of you making noise and calling unwanted attention, what good is that 6" fixed blade you have tucked at your waistline when you have a knife at your throat or a gun at point blank range, maybe you should have carried something else?

 

That's personally why I never use anything but knives I know that I can deploy with full force from a clinched position. So I can start the arm-wrestling for limb control and jerk my reverse blade out, fling it behind him and pull back as hard as I can with my entire body as if rowing a boat full force. That's a bit off-topic however, but I feel that the psychology of the potential bad guy should be included in this discussion.

 

Now we go back to square one, you have been stopped by an officer. The bad guys are either experts at this point or completely failures. Let's investigate the experts first.

The first thing an armed person would do is to make a reaction, he himself knows exactly what is going on but in order to "nudge" the officers view of him as a suspect to someone innocent the standard is to give a light surprised reaction since being stopped by officers is absolutely not an everday thing for you.

 

In essence, you have to work to switch the officers view he has of you as a potential danger to a harmless regular citizen.

Here the appreciation comes in, even if the officer is in a bad mood (trust me, they have bad days too), after the initial "jolt" that an officer suddenly stopped you out of nowhere be polite and appreciative, you want to help him perform his job. Strike up a friendly conversation with the officer asking if there's any trouble going on that you should watch out or be aware of.

 

The remainder of your actions will to a large degree depend on your overall manner, clothing and most of all, body language. I don't quite want to get in on body language since the officers train to read this and by typing out the "key" things not to do might also help a "bad guy" reach this information too.

 

All I can say is to act as a just and good citizen that appreciates the work the officers puts in. If you go silent and avoid eye contact (this is the complete failure of bad guys) then you probably have a nice ride to the station coming up. I'll leave it at that.

Permalink Reply by MICHAEL MAYFIELD on April 15, 2011 at 8:44

Thanks for the advise, we all need a remainder regarding personal attitudes when carrying a weapon. Too often the daily carry of any weapon tends to change a person attitude from protection to gun fighter and sometimes vigilante. Considerations must not only be taken when coming in contact with law enforcement, but also the non-weapon carrying general public.

I recall an incident at a restaurant, where I met some friend for lunch. I brought a  gift for one of my friend after a recent trip to Mexico that was wrapped. My friend was having trouble removing the wrapping, so I pull out one of my daily carry 3.5" folding knives and proceeded to cut the wrapping, while doing so the Waitress walks up to take our orders and looked shocked when she saw the blade (no cops called).

Generally, for these type of occasions I carry Gentlemen type knives, but this was a spur of the moment thing and I am so accustom to carrying tactical blades daily I didn't think about public perception.

 

Thanks again

Mike 

Permalink Reply by Halicon on April 17, 2011 at 16:46

Yes you're right on the money with that. The "change" of attitude once getting used to carry a tactical knife or anything that has the classic traits of a tactical knife, camo handle, black blade, anodized or sand-blasted, aggressively textured and all that we want from a good tactical knife is like night and day for people who are still stuck in that Rambo mindsetting of knives.

The chances of a misunderstanding from those around you that you deployed the knife can be so severe that you might just end up regretting it for your whole life.

 

Instead just like you wrote Michael, carry a gentlemans knife or even a rehandled tactical knife with some fancy stabilized burl scales.

My Sensei once let me try the "reaction" from people when deploying different designs. I was allowed four knives, three folders and the cold steel Tai Pan.

First I deployed my P'kal, a reverse grip reverse edge knife based on Filipino martial arts, a pure fighting knife. I got some reactions from the younger students (age limit of 18 in our school), then I went to a gentleman damascus folder and people instead asked if they could look at it because of it's Abalone handle, suffice to say I use this knife as a straight razor while camping out and there's no way I would dare let a freshman play with such an edge.

 

Next up came my Lone Wolf T3 Ranger, the only person who didn't literally jump up from the "Seiza" sitting posture and back was my Sensei.

 

And finally it was time for the Tai Pan, highly polished and extremely glossy but the design just screams danger with a short-sword type length and double edges.

I deployed it in a cross-carry draw-cut motion with enough force to lob a hand off.  Results? Nothing, they started fawning over how beutiful the finish on the blade was and that they wanted to test it out themselves while the T3 Ranger literally had the whole class pressed up against the wall.

 

It sure was as much of a learning experience as it was for everyone else in the room.

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