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Hitler Youth Knife?

I have what appears to be a Hitler Youth knife with the scabbard in fair condition. The markings on the blade are H&F Lauterjung with a RMZ # of M7/6. It was given to my grandfather during WWII by a german POW. I am trying to find out a little more about it because it doesn't fit the description or pictures of what is normally depicted as a Hitler Youth dagger. While most of the ones I've seen have black handles, this one has a white handle with a clear overlay. Just curious as to the price and interest in such a knife as I may be looking to sell it.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on August 31, 2014 at 11:22

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on August 31, 2014 at 11:23

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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on August 31, 2014 at 16:05

I hate to say it, but I am fairly certain this is a fake. To the best of my knowledge, the HJ and DJ knives were never made with white handles. These knives have been replicated in so many ways, both subtle and screamingly obvious. I will look deeper into this when I have time, off work tomorrow, but I wouldn't hold your breath. :-) I seem to remember something about the "Santa HJ knife" that a bunch of collectors were giggling about, and this may be one of them. I'll dig into it more when I have the chance...

Sorry.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on August 31, 2014 at 16:35

So...to go further, the RMZ marking is sideways to the maker's code. Also, with no motto, the RMZ should be on the ricasso, not the blade itself. The lack of the motto is a warning, but not definitive of a fake. The white scales are a warning, I also don't recall seeing any with screws instead of pins to hold the scales on. As I am certainly no expert, I won't say for sure that this is a reproduction, but I am reasonably sure this is yet another imitation HJ knife.. Also...is it just me, or does that last picture look like it says Solnigen instead of Solingen?

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on August 31, 2014 at 17:35

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on August 31, 2014 at 17:39

f. lauterjung
w
solhigeit

Thats what it appears to say to me

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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on August 31, 2014 at 19:10

Something to consider...if this came from a German POW, one never knows what was done to the knife. Parts like scales could have been stuff found around the camp, the diamond could be from a different knife, screws used for lack of rivets if the knife was indeed repaired inside the camp...everything about it could well be authentic...just reassembled from parts from other knives. Any way you look at it, as an heirloom from family, it's certainly worth lots!

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Talley on August 31, 2014 at 19:36

If it is a fake, it would have to he one of the earliest as it was in his footlocker when we opened it...and he never opened it after he returned home after the war. Of curiosity is the photo beneath the handle on the side opposite the crest of either a wife or girlfriend...not sure. I agree with tje concept of a possible "Frankenstein" mixture of available pieces.

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20140829_164443.jpg, 2.6 MB

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on August 31, 2014 at 19:48

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on August 31, 2014 at 19:58

Usually I start my searches for info on these here Hitler Youth Basics

Based on all the info I have seen in researching these you have sovereign knife. Or as you put it earlier a "frankenstein" As a POW, he would have had time between release and a trip home. My guess would be it was redone at that time as a project, maybe while in rehab?

Hitler Youth Basics

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by John McCain on September 1, 2014 at 16:43

Pardon everyone but I will disagree just a little- The blade and sheath are authentic , but it appears to be rehandled- Probably cracked and replaced-- The blade actually reads H&F Lauterjung, Solingen - The MK7/C is actually MK7/6 ( not the first I have seen like this-- Blade stamps, etc. are authentic and MK/6 was the number designated for H&F Lauterjung- Early manufacturers of these knives as the low number suggests-(6)--Everything appears authentic , including the shield-- Probably inlayed intio the replacement handle-- Here is a pic of another H&F Lauterjung youth knife-- Same stampings--